OpenBSD Journal

Review of OpenBSD 4.0

Contributed by jason on from the they-know-good-code-when-they-taste-it dept.

Software in Review has a very positive review of OpenBSD 4.0. In particular, they rave on the stability of the system, the quality of the new wireless drivers, and how well the upgrade path works from OpenBSD 3.9.

"I've tried hard to find a significant weak point in this operating system, but there just isn't one. Put simply, OpenBSD makes Unix fun and interesting. It's the only Unix-like operating system that you can build, customize, and update without running into strange problems, bugs, and growing pains. Upgrades are done with confidence, not trepidation, and once configured, there isn't a whole lot of worrying to do."

Read the full review here.

(Comments are closed)


Comments
  1. By Anonymous Coward (128.171.90.200) on

    "I can't understand why anyone who has a choice would go with anything other than OpenBSD for a Web, FTP, email, directory, or NFS server."

    I would certainly agree with most of that, though I have heard some grumblings about using OpenBSD as an NFS server.

    Comments
    1. By Anonymous Coward (87.78.88.192) on

      > "I can't understand why anyone who has a choice would go with anything other than OpenBSD for a Web, FTP, email, directory, or NFS server."
      >
      > I would certainly agree with most of that, though I have heard some grumblings about using OpenBSD as an NFS server.

      Me too!
      Using it, i cannot stop grumbling "It just works!".

    2. By Anonymous Coward (151.196.11.192) on

      > "I can't understand why anyone who has a choice would go with anything other than OpenBSD for a Web, FTP, email, directory, or NFS server."
      >
      > I would certainly agree with most of that, though I have heard some grumblings about using OpenBSD as an NFS server.

      Actually, I have only experienced problems with OpenBSD as a NFS client to an OS X server. Under large transfers, the system becomes unresponsive except for ping replies.

      Comments
      1. By Anonymous Coward (128.171.90.200) on

        > Actually, I have only experienced problems with OpenBSD as a NFS client
        > to an OS X server. Under large transfers, the system becomes
        > unresponsive except for ping replies.

        This one one of two problems raised with OpenBSD's NFS implementation.

        If there's a brief hiccup in connectivity the client can become stuck in the 'nfscon' state trying to reconnect and thus requires a reboot.

        The other problem is speed, which is an order-of-magnitude slower than say FreeBSD's. This isn't as big a deal as the first, I think most of us are happier to have a slow-but-stable-and-secure implementation. Unfortunatly at this point we then end up back at the first problem.

    3. By Anonymous Coward (201.51.15.231) on

      The only thing I miss now is fast-reboot-after-crash. Journaling or UFS2 or whatever. Waiting for fsck on a 500GB disk is no fun :/

      Comments
      1. By Anonymous Coward (87.226.71.94) on

        > The only thing I miss now is fast-reboot-after-crash. Journaling or UFS2 or whatever. Waiting for fsck on a 500GB disk is no fun :/
        >

        500 GB could be approximately 3 hours.

        Comments
        1. By Anonymous Coward (58.163.132.166) on

          > > The only thing I miss now is fast-reboot-after-crash. Journaling or UFS2 or whatever. Waiting for fsck on a 500GB disk is no fun :/
          > >
          >
          > 500 GB could be approximately 3 hours.
          >
          >

          Just use a UPS dickhead!

          Comments
          1. By Anonymous Coward (85.178.120.2) on

            > > > The only thing I miss now is fast-reboot-after-crash. Journaling or UFS2 or whatever. Waiting for fsck on a 500GB disk is no fun :/
            > > >
            > >
            > > 500 GB could be approximately 3 hours.
            > >
            > >
            >
            > Just use a UPS dickhead!

            And a UPS helps if the Board or PowerSuply of the Box has issues?
            Why are you just thinking about one-way solutions.... "dickhead".

      2. By Anonymous Coward (62.252.32.12) on

        > The only thing I miss now is fast-reboot-after-crash. Journaling or UFS2 or whatever. Waiting for fsck on a 500GB disk is no fun :/
        >

        Aye, was thinking that myself. The current FS works fine, which is the main thing, but I think there's a lot of room for improvement there.

        I also rather agree with his wireless configuration woes .. it's a pain.

      3. By Anonymous Coward (128.171.90.200) on

        > The only thing I miss now is fast-reboot-after-crash. Journaling or UFS2 or whatever. Waiting for fsck on a 500GB disk is no fun :/


        Softupdates ?

      4. By Igor Sobrado (156.35.192.3) on

        > The only thing I miss now is fast-reboot-after-crash. Journaling or UFS2 or whatever. Waiting for fsck on a 500GB disk is no fun :/

        ffs2 will probably be available for OpenBSD 4.2. As you can see from the changelogs and CVS repository updates, some commits related with ffs2 were submitted in the last months.

        Until then, I can say I am using ffs2 on my laptop (NetBSD 3.0.1) and used it in the past on the mail server of the Department of Geological Sciences of our University. I dropped ffs2 for the /home filesystem in the latter as user quotas were not supported on it. Don't know if OpenBSD will manage this important restriction on the current ffs2 implementation. When user quotas are not required (e.g., on my laptop) ffs2 is an excellent, reliable and very fast filesystem.

        Comments
        1. By Igor Sobrado (156.35.192.3) on

          > > The only thing I miss now is fast-reboot-after-crash. Journaling or UFS2 or whatever. Waiting for fsck on a 500GB disk is no fun :/
          >
          > ffs2 will probably be available for OpenBSD 4.2. As you can see from the changelogs and CVS repository updates, some commits related with ffs2 were submitted in the last months.

          I missed this important fact: to make ffs2 highly reliable on unexpected power outages and operating system hangs (exists the term "hang" in the OpenBSD world?) the write cache must be disabled as transactions to/from the filesystem must be done in the right order. Easy on SCSI disks, but IDE drives tend to miss this change between reboots (disabling the write cache on the startup scripts is required in the latter.)

          Perhaps the write cache on IDE disks should be disabled by default in OpenBSD to increase filesystem reliability. Just a suggestion. I know that OpenBSD developers like secure defaults even if it means a small performance degradation.

          Comments
          1. By sthen (85.158.44.146) on

            > Perhaps the write cache on IDE disks should be disabled by default in OpenBSD to increase filesystem reliability. Just a suggestion. I know that OpenBSD developers like secure defaults even if it means a small performance degradation.

            Turning off the write cache is a _big_ performance degradation.

            Comments
            1. By Igor Sobrado (81.37.167.54) on

              > > Perhaps the write cache on IDE disks should be disabled by default in OpenBSD to increase filesystem reliability. Just a suggestion. I know that OpenBSD developers like secure defaults even if it means a small performance degradation.
              >
              > Turning off the write cache is a _big_ performance degradation.

              Indeed, but soft updates (softdep) in ffs/ffs2 can help when a hardware cache is not available. Hopefully soft updates knows in what order data must be stored in the HDD. It does not care about HDD geometry but about filesystem integrity. We must consider that read cache does not need to be disabled either. Only write cache is dangerous, as a HDD knows how to optimize transactions based on its geometry but knows nothing about the filesystems themselves. Soft updates can help on this matter.

              Comments
              1. By sthen (85.158.44.148) on

                > Indeed, but soft updates (softdep) in ffs/ffs2 can help when a hardware cache is not available.

                The data write speed is something like _10x less_ with write-cache disabled. Try it for yourself with 'atactl wd0 writecachedisable' and something simple like 'dd if=/dev/zero of=foo count=bar'. 6874761 bytes/sec vs 72903426 on some system I just looked at. softdep makes no difference to this type of thing (but it makes untarring a ports tree and rm -r lots quicker), it delays _metadata_ updates, not file writes.

                I'm not certain, but I guess it's slow without WCE because you always have to wait for the correct part of the platter to spin around...

  2. By jirib (89.24.4.22) on

    i wrote an article called "New in OpenBSD 4.0" for a Czech unix/open-source internet portal Root.cz

    http://www.root.cz/clanky/novinky-v-openbsd-4-0/ (in Czech)

    just let you know, that Czech people love OpenBSD too :)

    Comments
    1. By Anonymous Coward (68.167.146.78) on

      > i wrote an article called "New in OpenBSD 4.0" for a Czech unix/open-source internet portal Root.cz
      >
      > http://www.root.cz/clanky/novinky-v-openbsd-4-0/ (in Czech)
      >
      > just let you know, that Czech people love OpenBSD too :)

      OpenBSD, and Free Software in general, is indeed an equal-opportunity benefit. :-)

  3. By Anonymous Coward (217.136.45.191) on

    The only problem I got with OpenBSD 4.0 for the moment is that bsd.rd goes into ddb on my ibook. So I cannot install it on this computer and I have to keep 3.9 installed. Very strange..

    Comments
    1. By Li Hu (202.113.114.111) on

      Exact same problem here. iBook G4. Of course it's my fault for not running every unstable snapshot out there *before* the release was tagged :p

      cheers...

    2. By Anonymous Coward (151.196.11.192) on

      > The only problem I got with OpenBSD 4.0 for the moment is that bsd.rd goes into ddb on my ibook. So I cannot install it on this computer and I have to keep 3.9 installed. Very strange..

      Have you filed a bug report?

      Comments
      1. By Anonymous Coward (217.136.45.191) on


        > Have you filed a bug report?

        Not yet as I have to test the latest snapshot to be sure it hasn't been resolved before submitting. No need to disturb devs if the problem has already been solved.

    3. By Pata (83.132.162.237) pata (ate) alface (dote) de on www.alface.de

      > The only problem I got with OpenBSD 4.0 for the moment is that bsd.rd goes into ddb on my ibook. So I cannot install it on this computer and I have to keep 3.9 installed. Very strange..

      If there's no problem with 'bsd', then just follow the faq for the upgrade without media and file a bug report.

  4. By magnus (24.40.137.125) on

    OK everybody here loves to read nice things about OpenBSD. Nothing wrong with that.

    How can this be called a "review"? I'd actually like to see a more objective piece. This was rushed out the door simply to get links from a site like this one to get more eyes on their ads. A real review would take longer to get out the door, and would back up some of its big assertions.

    "In OpenBSD's case, the code is definitely high quality."

    How would he know? Did he even look?

    "Everything you get in the release is production-ready, secure by default (meaning the administrator does not have to lock down the system -- it is already locked down, and services must be individually enabled), and comes with possibly the finest integrated documentation in the Unix-clone world."

    OK so he read the marketing speak. But if he had taken the time to read the finest integrated documentation in the Unix-clone world, he would see that there is a lot more to securing an OpenBSD system which is included in the documentation.

    "As a result, OpenBSD's RAID and wireless network card support is exceptional"

    How did he reach this determination?

    "better than Linux's in some ways"

    In what ways? Was this comparison part of the review?

    "The only significant obstacle for desktop users is the lack of hardware 3D acceleration for video cards."

    That's actually a pretty big obstacle for many desktop users. As much as he loves OpenBSD he should not be downplaying the importance of this point. Again, the lack of objectivity is quite apparent.

    "and the GNU version had come to a point where it made more sense to rewrite it under the BSD license with security and portability in mind"

    How did the author come to this determination? If he did not come to it on his own, he should be quoting an authoritative source. Again, this just looks like mindless regurgitation of what someone else told him.

    I just got through half the "review" without any actual reviewing taking place. Why do we accept these fluff pieces? I reject it. This is not objective in any way.

    The "Putting it to the test" section gives the first glimpse of anything useful. Talking about the added convenience of pkg_add since 3.9 was indeed very useful for someone who has either heard about or experienced for themselves the pain of upgrading an older version of OpenBSD.

    The frank exposure of poor support for his new hardware was also refreshing after slogging through the first half.

    "I've tried hard to find a significant weak point in this operating system, but there just isn't one."

    D'oh. He just contradicted himself. After so much good progress he went right back into fluff piece mode.

    "OpenBSD makes Unix fun and interesting."

    Writers use words like "interesting" when they want to come up with something positive but hit a mental block.

    "It's the only Unix-like operating system that you can build, customize, and update without running into strange problems, bugs, and growing pains."

    The lack of objectivity is reaching unprecedented levels. Also, it directly contradicts the strange problems and growing pains that he has already run into within the very short scope of his "review".

    "The other operating system I was testing while evaluating OpenBSD 4.0 was Fedora Core 6"

    The only way he could have had a less relevant comparison is if he had picked Windows Vista instead of FC6. Something like Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (the "server" flavor) would have been a much better direct comparison.

    "[...] I'm planning a migration strategy for my production server to go from Gentoo x86 [...]"

    Oh sweet mother of Jesus... this guy is running Gentoo on a production server? Any hope for a shred of credibility just flew right on out the window.

    Anybody that ever thinks it is appropriate to run an educational distribution like Gentoo on a production server should be drawn and quartered.

    "The only complaint that I ever see people raise about OpenBSD is that it doesn't perform as well as Solaris or GNU/Linux when under heavy load. With high-performance computer hardware so inexpensively available these days, however, I can't understand why anyone who has a choice would go with anything other than OpenBSD for a Web, FTP, email, directory, or NFS server."

    Wow he just contradicted himself in the space of two sentences. Either that or the "I can't understand" is simply an admission of complete ignorance of how the real world works.

    If a reviewer brings up something like "It is commonly believed that OpenBSD doesn't hold up under a heavy workload as well as Solaris or Linux" (sorry, rms, no "GNU/" prefix from this objective reviewer) then dammit put together a test to present some illusion of objectivity. Make it actually look like you are reviewing the OS. Compare it in a few simple simulations of real load workload to other OS's.

    Comments
    1. By Anonymous Coward (199.18.139.77) on

      --snipped--
      Dude, back away from the caffeine. Your deconstruction of the article was longer than the article! Get some fresh air, have a beer...

      Comments
      1. By Anonymous Coward (85.178.120.2) on

        > --snipped--
        > Dude, back away from the caffeine. Your deconstruction of the article was longer than the article! Get some fresh air, have a beer...

        Or smoke some w33d ;]

    2. By Anonymous Coward (193.136.62.9) on

      > (...) pain of upgrading an older version of OpenBSD.

      doh, have you ever used openbsd?

      yeah, get some fresh air...

    3. By Anonymous Coward (67.170.176.126) on

      you should consider where the article come from. I have never seen an interesting article coming from that author. all his articles are fluff ...

      AC

    4. By mpa (83.17.211.222) on

      > "[...] I'm planning a migration strategy for my production server
      > to go from Gentoo x86 [...]"
      >
      > Oh sweet mother of Jesus... this guy is running Gentoo on
      > a production server? Any hope for a shred of credibility
      > just flew right on out the window.
      >
      > Anybody that ever thinks it is appropriate to run an educational
      > distribution like Gentoo on a production server should be drawn
      > and quartered.

      While I agree with most of your comment this doesn't seem to be
      very objective, either. This does look like hypocrisy.

      Comments
      1. By Anonymous Coward (165.228.129.11) on

        > > "[...] I'm planning a migration strategy for my production server
        > > to go from Gentoo x86 [...]"
        > >
        > > Oh sweet mother of Jesus... this guy is running Gentoo on
        > > a production server? Any hope for a shred of credibility
        > > just flew right on out the window.
        > >
        > > Anybody that ever thinks it is appropriate to run an educational
        > > distribution like Gentoo on a production server should be drawn
        > > and quartered.
        >
        > While I agree with most of your comment this doesn't seem to be
        > very objective, either. This does look like hypocrisy.

        Really? Gentoo is:

        A nightmare to install.
        A nightmare to update.
        Gives Windows ME type stability

        and all for what?

        10% speed improvement in The GIMP?

        Gentoo is an educational system. The education you should hopefully receive is that gcc optimization is to some degree broken and that a small gain in performance is not worth the huge hit to stability. Gentoo for servers is nuts. Worse still, I've seen "Gentoo" under the experience requirements for sysadmin adverts.

        Instantly that is a flashing red light for me. Management is clueless and there are Gentoo zealots there who are likely to undermine you, your well reasoned opinion and the systems. Not worth the stress of working with OS religious nuts.

        Comments
        1. By mpa (83.17.211.222) on

          > Instantly that is a flashing red light for me. Management is
          > clueless and there are Gentoo zealots there who are likely to
          > undermine you, your well reasoned opinion and the systems.

          I think you didn't get my point -- bashing _anything_ without
          arguments is just dumb. Additionaly let me share my opinion that
          undeadly probably isn't best place to discuss GNU/Linux distributions...

          > Not worth the stress of working with OS religious nuts.

          And you said that in OpenBSD forum... yeah, right. For me you're
          starting to look like zealot too.
          Please tell me how people can hire Linux administrator?
          RedHat admin? SUSE admin? These distros all come with "wizards"
          or something of that sort. I think only Slackware and Gentoo
          need to me configured manually.

          I used gentoo just few moments -- it didn't feel unixy enough,
          I didn't like it much. Gentoo isn't system for me nor you,
          but that doesn't mean that it's just piece of crap.

          Comments
          1. By Anonymous Coward (71.98.179.243) on

            > Please tell me how people can hire Linux administrator?
            > RedHat admin? SUSE admin? These distros all come with "wizards"
            > or something of that sort. I think only Slackware and Gentoo
            > need to me configured manually.

            Debian is really good, if you need Linux (for whatever reason). I basically tried all the big distros released up until 2003, and Debian always scored high from a sysadmin perspective (Slackware's okay too, but not quite as polished). I got tired of the politics though. And their technical mailing lists have way too much jibber-jabber!

            Comments
            1. By Jeroen (213.84.80.73) on http://efantasy.be

              > > Please tell me how people can hire Linux administrator?
              > > RedHat admin? SUSE admin? These distros all come with "wizards"
              > > or something of that sort. I think only Slackware and Gentoo
              > > need to me configured manually.
              >
              > Debian is really good, if you need Linux (for whatever reason). I basically tried all the big distros released up until 2003, and Debian always scored high from a sysadmin perspective (Slackware's okay too, but not quite as polished). I got tired of the politics though. And their technical mailing lists have way too much jibber-jabber!

              Debian sucks. Debian is imo to much point-and-click. They included like every Window Manager ever released, and to much multimedia shit. If you need a stable O/S on a server, would you listen to MP3s on *that* server? Dont think so! I'd rather use Slackware, if you make me to use Linux shit. But, like everyone knows, OpenBSD for life!

              Comments
              1. By Terrell Prude' Jr. (151.188.247.104) on

                > Debian sucks. Debian is imo to much point-and-click. They included like every Window Manager ever released, and to much multimedia shit. If you need a stable O/S on a server, would you listen to MP3s on *that* server? Dont think so! I'd rather use Slackware, if you make me to use Linux shit. But, like everyone knows, OpenBSD for life!
                >

                Yeah...real mature there....

                None of the Free platforms are "shit" in my experience. Name-calling like this does nothing but piss other people off at you, and it certainly doesn't do anything to foster good relations between F/OSS projects. C'mon...you can do better than this.

                That said, I do use and enjoy Slackware as well as OpenBSD. Slackware indeed reminds me a lot of the BSD's. But neither OpenBSD nor Slackware is for everybody, which is why we have projects like Ubuntu and PC-BSD.

                --TP

                Comments
                1. By Anonymous Coward (213.84.80.73) on

                  > > Debian sucks. Debian is imo to much point-and-click. They included like every Window Manager ever released, and to much multimedia shit. If you need a stable O/S on a server, would you listen to MP3s on *that* server? Dont think so! I'd rather use Slackware, if you make me to use Linux shit. But, like everyone knows, OpenBSD for life!
                  > >
                  >
                  > Yeah...real mature there....
                  >
                  > None of the Free platforms are "shit" in my experience. Name-calling like this does nothing but piss other people off at you, and it certainly doesn't do anything to foster good relations between F/OSS projects. C'mon...you can do better than this.
                  >
                  > That said, I do use and enjoy Slackware as well as OpenBSD. Slackware indeed reminds me a lot of the BSD's. But neither OpenBSD nor Slackware is for everybody, which is why we have projects like Ubuntu and PC-BSD.
                  >
                  > --TP

                  Good point there. BUT, my goal is not to piss off people, or spit at the other Open Source O/S. I didnt ment Linux is unable to fulfill tasks. But, Linux weakens good security. NOT meaning it is inmature, but meaning it got to many exploitable holes in my opinion. I used Linux for years. Mandrake (now Mandriva), is VERY userfriendly, just like SuSE. If someone wants to start using Linux, I would recommend them.

                  But, when I (ME in this case) need to trust the system, to be completely safe and stable, I would NEVER, ever, install Ubuntu/PC-BSD. Sure, they are good, and user friendly, but there are to many security issues. But hey, that is my personal opinion.

                  But, as I am huge supporter of Open Source projects, I have nothing against Linux!

                  Comments
                  1. By Anonymous Coward (213.84.80.73) on

                    > > > Debian sucks. Debian is imo to much point-and-click. They included like every Window Manager ever released, and to much multimedia shit. If you need a stable O/S on a server, would you listen to MP3s on *that* server? Dont think so! I'd rather use Slackware, if you make me to use Linux shit. But, like everyone knows, OpenBSD for life!
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > Yeah...real mature there....
                    > >
                    > > None of the Free platforms are "shit" in my experience. Name-calling like this does nothing but piss other people off at you, and it certainly doesn't do anything to foster good relations between F/OSS projects. C'mon...you can do better than this.
                    > >
                    > > That said, I do use and enjoy Slackware as well as OpenBSD. Slackware indeed reminds me a lot of the BSD's. But neither OpenBSD nor Slackware is for everybody, which is why we have projects like Ubuntu and PC-BSD.
                    > >
                    > > --TP
                    >
                    > Good point there. BUT, my goal is not to piss off people, or spit at the other Open Source O/S. I didnt ment Linux is unable to fulfill tasks. But, Linux weakens good security. NOT meaning it is inmature, but meaning it got to many exploitable holes in my opinion. I used Linux for years. Mandrake (now Mandriva), is VERY userfriendly, just like SuSE. If someone wants to start using Linux, I would recommend them.
                    >
                    > But, when I (ME in this case) need to trust the system, to be completely safe and stable, I would NEVER, ever, install Ubuntu/PC-BSD. Sure, they are good, and user friendly, but there are to many security issues. But hey, that is my personal opinion.
                    >
                    > But, as I am huge supporter of Open Source projects, I have nothing against Linux!

                    And no, I was NOT saying Linux is incompatible towards servers, only that OpenBSD has fewer security issues, as OpenBSD is a proactively secure Operating System. Linux is secure, especially when compared to Windows, but OpenBSD is just that little bit more secure...

          2. By Anonymous Coward (165.228.129.11) on

            > > Not worth the stress of working with OS religious nuts.
            >
            > And you said that in OpenBSD forum... yeah, right. For me you're
            > starting to look like zealot too.

            OpenBSD strives for security and stability amongst other things and acheives it. Gentoo on the other hand strives for that extra 10% performance and maximum configurability, which comes at a stability cost.

            I look like a linux zealot for wanting security and stability on servers and production machines?

            I would gladly take care of Debian, but I would prefer OpenBSD for those types of critical machines. But Gentoo is a really silly choice for those. Do you really want a server which can easily be inconsistent and unstable? My Gentoo at home can be quite different to the Gentoo at some work place, even if we built at the same time from the same source. How is someone supposed to effectively admin the unknown?

            There is no zealotry involved in wanting stability, security and consistency where those things matter.

            OpenBSD and Gentoo are worlds apart. One is appropriate for production and the other has goals which are not.

    5. By Terrell Prude' Jr. (151.188.247.104) on

      > OK everybody here loves to read nice things about OpenBSD. Nothing wrong with that.
      >
      > How can this be called a "review"? I'd actually like to see a more objective piece. This was rushed out the door simply to get links from a site like this one to get more eyes on their ads. A real review would take longer to get out the door, and would back up some of its big assertions.
      >

      I agree, the review is not objective and is full of contradictions. As for the SMP performance issue, I actually do want that increased SMP performance to take fuller advantage of my CPU's, so for my quad-core box, I do use GNU/Linux. That said, OpenBSD is a fine system; I've been using it since v2.8. Nonetheless, a well done review would've had much more testing, much less marketing-speak, and been much more objective (Tom's Hardware reviews come to mind). The points of carelessness in the review that you make are well founded indeed.

      However, the bit about Gentoo in your response was equally misplaced. This isn't a "Linux distro-bashing site". Perhaps you merely meant it as a point of reference, but c'mon.

      --TP

Credits

Copyright © - Daniel Hartmeier. All rights reserved. Articles and comments are copyright their respective authors, submission implies license to publish on this web site. Contents of the archive prior to as well as images and HTML templates were copied from the fabulous original deadly.org with Jose's and Jim's kind permission. This journal runs as CGI with httpd(8) on OpenBSD, the source code is BSD licensed. undeadly \Un*dead"ly\, a. Not subject to death; immortal. [Obs.]